Next Level Human

Sound Healing, Sacred Geometry & Ancient Wisdom with Tyler Engel- Ep. 283

Jade Teta Episode 283

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In this episode of the Next Level Human Podcast, Dr. Jade interviews Tyler Engle, an engineer and musician who explores the intersection of sound, sacred geometry, and spirituality. Tyler shares his journey from engineering to delving into esoteric knowledge during the COVID pandemic, highlighting the connections between music, healing, and ancient technologies. The conversation covers the significance of cymatics, the role of sound in human experience, and the potential for sound healing in modern society. Tyler emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and authenticity in personal development, advocating for a holistic approach to healing that integrates music, breathwork, and visualization.

keywords
Tyler Engle, sacred geometry, cymatics, sound healing, personal development, engineering, spirituality, music, consciousness, ancient technologies

takeaways

  • Tyler Engle combines engineering and music to explore esoteric knowledge.
  • Cymatics reveals the connection between sound and visual patterns.
  • Sacred geometry has historical significance in architecture and spirituality.
  • Sound can be a powerful tool for healing and personal development.
  • Meditation is essential for mental health and clarity.
  • Music can unlock emotional energy and enhance physical performance.
  • Ancient technologies hold valuable insights for modern healing practices.
  • Integrating sound, breath, and visualization can facilitate profound healing.
  • The placebo effect can amplify the effectiveness of healing practices.
  • Now is a critical time for exploring alternative healing methods.

Chapters

00:00- Introduction to Tyler Engle and His Work

02:47- The Intersection of Engineering, Music, and Esoteric Knowledge

05:53- Bridging Science and Spirituality through Cymatics

09:11- Sacred Geometry and Its Historical Significance

11:53- The Role of Sound in Healing and Human Experience

15:10- Exploring the Power of Frequencies and Their Effects

18:02- The Connection Between Frequency, Form, and Human Consciousness

21:02- The Science of Sound and Its Impact on the Body

23:57- Ancient Technologies and Their Relevance Today

27:05- The Role of Music in Emotional and Physical Healing

30:00- The Future of Healing: Integrating Music, Breath, and Visualization

33:05- Final Thoughts and Future Collaborations

Connect With Tyler:
Tyler's Website
Tyler's Books
Tyler on Social Media: Instagram, Tiktok

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Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
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Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta

Speaker 1:

All right, everyone, welcome to today's podcast. This is the Next Level Human podcast. I'm your host, Dr Jade Tita. I have a very interesting guest on today and this is just to let all you listeners know.

Speaker 1:

This is one of these people that you stumble across on social media and they kind of open it's like pulling back the veil or something like you know, it's like what's behind the curtain and you know it's like this amazing information. And I bought this person's books. I've been, you know, sort of stalking him and been asking him to come on the show and share with us, and so this is Tyler Engel. He's at Bass Forge on Instagram, where I follow him. He's also a DJ.

Speaker 1:

He's written several books. This one in particular, Codex Esoterica. This is the first book that I got. It opens up a whole new world, and what I want to do, Tyler, is just set this up for everybody and then just kind of have you sort of jump in.

Speaker 1:

You know I'm going to this is an area, just so everyone knows, that I am not really familiar with at all. But to me, part of what I want the Next Level Human podcast to be is not to just teach you about these four jobs, health, wealth, personal relationships and personal development. But to me, I think in the realm of personal development, the primary thing that we need to understand is self-awareness and perception changes, learning to see the world differently, and I feel like Tyler sees the world very differently than a lot of us and kind of points out things that might surprise a lot of us, and so what I'd like to do, Tyler, is just have you and I'm going to butcher it if I try to explain to you exactly what it is that you do, so I would love for you to just essentially just go okay, look here, guys, here's what I do and here's how I came to this work. And then, of course, I have a ton of things I've been dying to ask you.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me on, man. I'm really excited to talk about this stuff.

Speaker 2:

I actually we were talking before this. It's really kind of hard to compress everything that I actually want to talk about into a minute on, you know, tik TOK or Instagram, so long form opportunities are always appreciated and uh, thank you so much I would. I would say my my job here is to kind of be the bridge between my knowledge and the things that I see in the world.

Speaker 2:

I come from a background. I'm an engineer by trade. I've worked in computer engineering for like three years and then didn't like the corporate life, so got out of that, started a couple of businesses and then got into some, I would say, esoteric stuff during COVID, like looked into, you know, typical stuff that everybody falls into, pyramid stuff and that usually leads to some interesting rabbit holes. And I noticed some connections between my engineering knowledge and at the time I've been making music for quite a long time too, so I have a background in audio engineering as well. Those two were linking up with the history that I was looking into and then I just dove into that world quite a bit and then opens up a whole bunch of realms of sacred geometry and stuff that humans have been studying since we've been able to study things like that, study things like that.

Speaker 1:

Actually, if you don't mind, let me just stop you right there, tyler, because I want to just point out something to the listeners and something to you that I think will help frame this.

Speaker 1:

Isn't it interesting For the next level human?

Speaker 1:

In my mind, the whole path is, the idea is like this there's never been another Tyler in the history of humanity, nor will there ever be again, same with Jade, same with all you listeners.

Speaker 1:

And what's interesting, what Tyler just showed us all that I just want the listener to be aware of, is that his unique history. Right, he's got this engineering background, he's got this music background and then all of a sudden, he starts delving into this new thing and, because he has this history and this background, he comes at this in a unique way and all of a sudden starts to see certain things that maybe not many other people could see in quite the way that Tyler sees them because of his background. And so this gets me excited whenever I hear stories like this, because it's basically like I always love this next level human story of like, well, I had this background, this background, I put them together, I saw this thing and, lo and behold, all of a sudden because I'm coming at it from this way, something opens up for me, so let's go into what opened up for you.

Speaker 2:

It's funny you say that because I started the whole page just not for my selfish reasons either. I was like I wanted to crowdsource my knowledge. I was posting about things and they were things that I was comfortable enough to explain, and then I would get people would DM me like, hey, have you seen this? Have you seen this? Have you seen this? So over the year, the year and a half that I've been doing this, I've crowdsourced a lot of resources I would have never known about. Personal people had taken trips to places that I would never go and sent me personal pictures, and it's allowed me to kind of analyze these things from a different perspective. So my hope is that I can show something to someone and maybe that unlocks something in their brain where they make something that changes humanity. You know they could. Maybe it's not me that's meant to open that door, but maybe someone else can pick up a piece that I laid down and be like yo, this is, you know, absolutely revolutionary. I can apply this to mechanical engineering or something. So that's really why I started it in the first place, and then just making these resources is kind of my main pursuit at the moment, and then, you know, assembling a team later on is kind of like my goal to kind of make some technology that actually benefits all of humanity from the perspective of a holistic you know let's not keep destroying the planet type viewpoint, and, uh, I mean, I think everybody's on the same page there in 2024 or so. Um, anything I can do for that, that's. That's really what I'm. I'm sticking with.

Speaker 2:

But I feel like the um, like sacred geometry and cymatics and all of that stuff ties into itself and it's a really easy bridge. I grew up in a very um, uh, christian household and when it was, when I was younger, I didn't really, you know, pay attention Like many of us there's, you know, you're a kid, you don't really want to go to church or anything, you want to play on the playground, you want to do all that stuff and kind of push me away from it. And, um, and I feel like a lot of this stuff kind of bridges the gap between um, the science and spirituality circles, you know, cause oftentimes they butt heads and there's a lot of knowledge in both. And I think the bridge and why my stuff's doing so well, is cymatics, and it's such a new field now and people are experimenting with it and it's so cool to watch kids love it, adults love it, and it it's literally bridging the gaps, and I can show so many examples of how sound has been used for healing, and and sound has been translated into images that become the symbols that we know and that we've seen throughout history, and making those connections is literally what you know what AI does Like.

Speaker 2:

If I can, if I can put these little nodes in your head that says, hey, this is this and this are related. That's just building a better mental architecture for you to do something with your life. You know, ignorance is going to be the thing that holds most people back. And if you can translate ancient, ancient information that we've had for so long into this modern paradigm, with all these modern tools like AI and and you know we're talking probably half I don't know where you're at, but we're very far away from each other and we can have conversations like this, linking your knowledge with my knowledge to your audience. So it's all. I think we're living in the perfect time for this and, like you said, there's no one like you, no one like me, and whatever we can do for everyone else, I think that should be the main mission of everybody.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know what it's really interesting. Right, I want to get into for the listener to define some of these things, but you know, that is what you said Something that I think is another hallmark of the next level human idea, which is this idea that when I am completely authentic to myself, when Tyler goes, I'm just going to be Tyler. I'm going to take my history, my traumas, my dramas, my learnings, my all the stuff, and just authentically express, and without with confident detachment, by the way, not with expectations or assumptions about where it goes or the need for popularity or whatever something magical begins to happen and all of a sudden you become a building block, perhaps, to new knowledge. Now, what you're dealing with is this idea. Hopefully I won't butcher it, but what I think, what I'm interested in all you listeners getting from Tyler, is he seems to, in my mind, be following this idea that I just stated, but actually going backwards and saying, hey, listen everybody, we've actually had some of this technology for a very long time, ancient technologies that we, as smart as we think we are, have missed. And I'm probably going to butcher this, but he mentioned this idea of sacred geometry and this idea of cymatics.

Speaker 1:

So those of you who haven't heard of cymatics. The idea would be if you've ever seen these experiments where you take a vibrating plate with frequencies going through it and put sand all over it and pump these frequencies through these plates, you see this formation of these amazion sort of pictures, much like what Tyler was pointing to the mandalas that we oftentimes see and people meditate on, like the Sri Yantra and stuff like that that cymatics is actually making pictures out of sound frequencies. And this is the stuff that I was just blown away, tyler, the way you're putting this stuff together. So when did you start seeing sort of this sacred geometry, this music piece sort of coming together, and what sense are you making out of it? Like, where does it come from? Like, can you give us sort of the big picture where your aha moment, where you're just like oh my God, jade, I just went, you know this is when it started clicking for me. I'm wondering when that happened and why and how.

Speaker 2:

It's kind of a funny story. Honestly, I'm a music producer too now, and I make a lot of my own music visuals. I'm an electronic music producer, so when we play live, we have a big screen behind us and then it displays visuals. And so my goal with my project was to connect as many senses to the experience as possible, because you have your audio, you have your crowd around you, you have your visuals, you have your lasers, you have your light show, you have all that stuff right. And so I was noticing, when I would go to shows and festivals, that the best producers had linked all of that together. The lasers were in sync and the visuals were displaying stuff that felt like it was. It was the music visually Right.

Speaker 2:

And so my, my immediate thought was I'd watched this, this documentary by Nigel Stanford called cymatics, and he does a beautiful job. If no one has seen that, please go check it out it's. It's got millions of views now and it's it's. He did such a good job with it. It made me feel like that. That was the, that was the ultimate like connection between the two. So I um, I built my own cymatics little um water dish on a speaker type situation, and when I was recording it, I was I was initially just going to put them in the background and kind of video edit a cool visual in there and they started making these patterns. And then I was like, okay, this is. I didn't discover cymatics by any means, but I started reaching out to people on social media that were doing the same thing and there's like four or five guys that are doing such a great job. Journey of Curiosity. Cadboy, if you're looking on Instagram, they have these exceptionally high quality pictures of these cymatic glyphs. That's what they're called. When you, when you do a freeze frame of a frequency, it's a cymatic glyph. And so I was sharing mine with them, they were sharing theirs with me and we kind of built this library of all of these frequency sound shapes Right, and when I started looking at them, I was like, oh, I've seen these somewhere. Man, I know I've seen these. These patterns are too like, they're too intricate and they're too symmetrical to not have been used before, because if you think about it, you could, you know, sing into a bowl. That's literally what singing bowls are and it creates a pattern.

Speaker 2:

When I was looking at doing my rabbit hole of Egyptian research in 2020, I was noticing a lot of the same patterns were in a lot of the ancient cultures, and the symbols seemed to have a meaning that was much deeper than what I was getting from them, because when I would look them up, you get a very surface level explanation. So when I would, what I did really was kind of just deconstruct what was going on with the sound and what was going on with the symbol and kind of try and bridge that gap. And once you do that, you start to notice similarities between cultures and then you kind of form an accurate-ish type picture of what the thing actually means by having enough perspectives. Right, I have my own opinion on what it means, but the Buddhists over here say that it's one thing, the Hindus say it's one thing, christians say it's one thing, and there's a bunch of these ancient teachings that are converging at this one time. And the way that I saw it was okay. Well, people are obviously biased about what they are. You know, whatever they grew up in, they have a cultural bias to it. But if I can show that y'all are talking about the same thing, then maybe we can kind of get a little bit more of a bridge between everybody. And then, once I did that, then I then everybody started sending me stuff, because I was just the neutral party, I was, you know, respect to all these cultures, and all of them reached out to me and they're like, well, my, my grandma has this book and it has this picture in it. What do you think this means? And so I was, I was compiling all these things and um, and so I was like, okay, I think I can, I, I have my, I have my music projects and I have my, my social media topics now, media topics now. And so, the deeper I looked into it, I was like, okay, well, these frequencies are doing something. Uh, like, geometrically, they're doing something.

Speaker 2:

And I I also want to clear up the um, sacred geometry concept. If no one's familiar with sacred geometry, it's, it's a spiritual concept, but there's, there's a lot of science behind it. It's it's a lot less woo than people think. Sacred geometry at its core is the relationship between straight lines and curves in perfect proportional division. And if you need a perfect example of this, you can look at any cathedral built in the Renaissance, the high Gothic era. Every single one of them is built with the principles of sacred geometry behind them. They're literally books in stone. So when you start looking at those two and you realize how much sound was incorporated into cathedrals, with the giant bells and the pipe organs and the rose windows are literally a cymatic pattern. They're encoding all of this geometry that's linking frequency to form and that's the bridge and the human understanding of that. You are right in the middle of that and that's the gift of creation with humanity is the ability to translate the unseen to the scene and make that useful. And that's what I think we lost.

Speaker 2:

Like what you said, I think we had a lot of it before. I think there was a lot more technology that was in cathedrals and in these temples that had an experiment where he played he does this by the book, scientific method, everything. He did an experiment where he isolated a vial of blood like red blood cells and two of them far away from each other, and he played classical music, a bunch of different frequencies, almost every single one that he tested. With the music the red blood cells would multiply in that vial and the one where he played nothing and isolated it in silence, they would, as you would expect, they all died. The blood was dead.

Speaker 2:

So we're doing all of these studies that are showing that there's a lot of hidden power in sound and in frequency, and I think that the main thing that we can do is look into this, because it's a very widely available technology. Everybody has speakers, everybody has a voice. You know, like there's some latent power here that we're not really tapping into, and I want to, I'm trying to not really tapping into and I'm trying to blow the lid off of this. I'm trying to find out what we can do. How can we improve this?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're doing some really cool things, and actually from my background because my background is biochemistry, naturopath, transpersonal psychology now and one of the things you see is the Bramari breath, or humming breath, as being incredibly powerful. I remember one of the first research studies I read on this was back in the 90s, because I was in medical school back in the late 90s, early 2000s and showing that humming does something with the resonance in the nasal passages that cause the release of nitric oxide, right, and so just these kinds of frequencies. And then, of course, you go back and you go well, we've been using things like this since forever, you know in terms of like the meditative practices, and this is what I so it's like isn't it interesting, right, tyler? Like I was sort of interested in this and, seeing this from the science point, I'm a big guy who, you know, sort of loves music, kind of came up in the rap, hip hop era but then got into like EDM and all that kind of stuff, but then got into like EDM and all that kind of stuff, and for me I go, there's something you know so magical happening here, which then goes to the fact that I have a little bit of this experience and I see Tyler show up and I'm like, ooh, this guy's interesting Cause I have enough of a ping in my brain to go oh, this is interesting, and the scientist in me and the work that I'm doing now is really interesting in using music.

Speaker 1:

Now, one of the things that you said, that I just want to get your opinion on this, because it's just two guys who are, I think, really interested in this, when you say frequency to form, right, I think that's the way you sort of put it what's your take on? And this might be jumping like way the gun, but just forgive me, listener, because I want to nerd out with Tyler if I can but this idea of frequency to form. So one of the things that I have been playing with is I've been studying the biofield and the idea of the biofield and the idea of the chakras and this kind of stuff which, by the way, in case people don't know, we've actually proven, to my mind, that the chakras do exist Jen Rowald, who did a really interesting study on looking at the centers in the body. But from my perspective, to me, I've started to see this idea of the biofield which, by the way, is still incredibly controversial for many of you. So just know that it's still very controversial.

Speaker 1:

But the idea that the biofield is then being translated into biochemistry and that the go between um then being translated into biochemistry and that the go between and I just want to see if this resonates with you or any way, if you have but that water and this idea of the fourth phase of water or structure, so-called structured water, and the way water holds frequencies or uh, vibrates with frequencies or changes with frequencies, that perhaps the translator between the biofield and the biochemistry is this water layer.

Speaker 1:

That's the first thing. I want to see if you know anything about that or have any thoughts about that. But the reason it reminds me of something for you is I saw you do something really interesting I think it was you on one of your things where you took these different frequencies and layered them on top of each other in very different ways and all of a sudden a human face emerged from that and this idea that you're pointing us towards, that you know frequencies moving into form, and so I'm wondering if I'm botching this for you, if you understand what I'm asking. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on this idea of how that happens how these frequencies move into form, and do you see it as having anything to do with the idea of us being energy bodies that then are observed physically?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, without getting too speculative and still staying on the kind of science proving side, I totally agree with that. First off, there there's a bunch of research now I can cite probably two papers off the top of my head that are linking dna to being a fractal antenna. So fractal antennas are what you use in your cell phone too. It's. It's an antenna that maximizes space and can accept a huge band of frequencies and respond accordingly. That's what your cell phone does. So, no matter where you're at, you can have signal. There's a wide band, there's an LTE band, there's a 5G band. All of these antennas are built into the phone.

Speaker 2:

The DNA of you, it doesn't really like. When I grew up, it was like you know, you had your genetic code and there's a lot of. You know you're predisposed to doing all sort of mechanism that DNA responds to, that can trigger certain genes to maximize survival and and and you know your, your chances of staying here, and I think that, like, I'm not saying that sound is the main one, but there's a lot of things that that kind of trigger my like your, your your ears, connected to the vagus nerve, like it's. It's your quickest way of reacting to anything. Right, you hear loud sound, you're like what's that? You know, like there's, there's a lot of things linked to sound with the human mind. Even. You know, like you said, the humming, the, the, the nasal passages are connected to the limbic system. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure that's right, right, so I think that there's a lot of things that are pointing towards okay. There's triggers within us. Some may be triggered acoustically, ultrasonically, with infrared. There's a spectrum of waves that we absorb on the daily and it seems like that antenna would respond accordingly, right? So I think there is definitely a link between the unseen and the biological world and it's getting translated by DNA. That's without my, with my limited medical knowledge. That's really kind of what my research is pointing to.

Speaker 2:

And if you look at, like you know, the gateway process by CIA, a bunch of different meditation techniques that use sound to enhance that cognitive experience, or hemispherical synchronization, you know where you're playing two tones that are slightly off in both ears and your brain makes that the difference in the middle, linking the hemispheres of the brain to that frequency that's. I use a lot of that in my own personal meditations and for me I could be biased because I made it, but it seems like it works a lot better. I've experimented with a lot of these things and doing the OM, too, is the same, like what you're saying. It resonates the, the, the, the nasal cavity there, and they've been, you know, it's, this has been around for so long and it's been kind of written off in the last I don't know two, 300 years where, where we took it far more seriously before, before this era where everything was was more based on that, and now I think we're getting into, like the, there's so much technology that we're forgetting about the original technology that we come equipped with and that we've been studying for thousands of years.

Speaker 2:

And to write off all of that, as you know, just spiritual or like just ritual. It was a spiritual ritual for a reason. Reason is because it was effective at doing something. Whether that means getting people together for you know just that, that social cohesion or to to actually direct some sort of frequencies into a healing process. I think we need to look into that. I think there needs to be more studies on that than than, you know, pharmaceutical drugs. I think that's that more studies on that than pharmaceutical drugs. I think that's a no-brainer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, 100%, and I think we're starting to see the very beginning of this. Here's another question for you when you think about sacred geometry and the use in these cathedrals and the use in all these places that you're pointing out around the world, are you seeing this sacred geometry being used primarily to amplify musical frequencies and frequencies like that? Are you seeing that that's what the use was, or was their use? Do you think all on its own? Because there's this connection you're making with the engineering background.

Speaker 1:

What's interesting about you is you're an engineer from one standpoint, but you're also an audio engineer, so it's like you're bringing in these two engineering. How are you seeing these things? Are you seeing them as a one-way street where the sacred geometry that was built into a lot of these ancient structures? Do you think it was built that way to amplify sound, or do you think it's doing something in and of itself, or vice versa? I'm curious, because that's the one thing I really wanted to ask you. What's your hypothesis on why, for example, some of these things seem to be built, at least based on what you're seeing to either I don't know mitigate sound, amplify sound? I've heard things like some of these ancient structures being dampening for frequencies that can cause earthquakes and stuff like that. What's your take on why these structures were built the way they were?

Speaker 2:

Well, the more you look into the ancient world, the more you realize there's a rule you have to look at. It's never just one thing. They never did anything with just one meaning behind it, whether it's a word, whether it's a word, whether it's a temple, whether it's a piece of art, it all was layered with different meanings and uses. And for me, the temples and this is a whole branch of study called temple science if you're into the esoteric world and the whole focus of it is twofold. When you go into a cathedral or a temple, you're immediately humbled because the amount of effort and the craftsmanship and beauty that you see in all of these things makes you take a step back and go okay, they just did this for a ritual purpose, they did all of this for that.

Speaker 2:

That doesn't make a lot of. So I walk into, like my local church or or anything down the street and I'm like, okay, this is a normal building. It's like in a strip mall, you know. But you walk into one of those and you're like there's something else here, something's going on, you know you. You immediately look around and you're like how, who, who designed this? Why did they do this?

Speaker 1:

it's the sense of awe that you get, like when you see a mountain or something.

Speaker 2:

It's exactly awe you know, yeah, except you, you someone took that from their mind and made it into a real thing. That's even more like holy crap. So that's kind of what triggered me to look into to the like design of it. And then when you look at the design, the design is based on harmony and proportion, and harmony and proportion are absolutely fundamental for music. If you don't have harmony and proportion in sound, then you have really bad music. It doesn't sound good.

Speaker 2:

Harmony is fundamentally, if you whittle it all the way down, is how spheres interact with spheres. The same principles that work for music are the same principles you'll see in magnetism and the same principles you'll see in the double slit experiment, wave interference. All of it is one thing. So for me, I think sound was a huge focus because humans have the ability to manipulate that form of wave. Naturally we have vocal cords, we can talk, we can formulate speech, we can create these sound symbols, glyphs, if, if you want to look at it from a cymatic perspective, of the words that we're speaking, when I speak into this microphone and you hear it, the literally, your brain is processing the geometry of the waves. It's not processing the sound right.

Speaker 2:

It has to deconstruct that right. So geometry and sound are, you can't have one without the other. They're intricately linked and there's a there's been many studies on this there's a silent resonance in each cathedral or ancient temple and they all are symmetrical. They're not noise, it's not like a random wave, right. They all make a pattern and when you play certain frequencies in them, certain frequencies are amplified, no matter what other harmonics are in that, that piece of music or that sound that the pipe organs making or the choir singing, certain frequencies are amplified and certain frequencies are. It's like an equalizer.

Speaker 2:

Being inside one of these cathedrals is literally like a tuned hall, like a concert hall, and I I am under the a hundred percent, I'm fully convinced that whoever was designing it knew what frequencies they wanted to amplify and what frequencies they wanted to mitigate, because they probably had an effect on the human body and the health of people. And I mean any cathedral you go to, you're going to see it. There's a shape like a cross and the front of it is a half circle and that part is called the ambulatory and that part is literally. It looks exactly like a resonance chamber that you'll find in a magnetron, like in your microwave. It looks exactly like a resonance chamber that you'll find in a magnetron, like in your microwave. It looks exactly the same. It focuses that sound right in the center, where the altar is.

Speaker 2:

So the physics are pointing to that. You can't deny that. The physics are pointing to it. So how do we increase our understanding of that? We have to have scientists and physicists take this seriously, and to do that, I feel like I have to connect so many dots that it's almost impossible for you to be like okay, there's, there's something here, what's what? What is it? And and linking that is is could be revolutionary for all of humanity. You know, if you don't need to, if you don't need all of this stuff to to heal yourself or to have peace in your mind after a traumatic experience that we're all going to go through, how, how are we going to progress if we have all these people that are that are, you know, helpless, and there's a tool out there that people can use to help themselves and to to really improve their life, and nobody's nobody's talking about it, no one's. No one's helping people use it?

Speaker 1:

And it's basically for free, and I guess this can drive us into an interesting discussion where some of my expertise may diverge with yours, and so let's go into this and see what you have to say on some of this. And some of you listening will understand this, because you've heard this from me before, but this is probably the first time Tyler has heard this, at least from me, although I'm sure it's going to be interesting and familiar to you. So let's just take some of the stuff that you and I would call controversial in science right now. Of course, I've always been a little bit like you, I'm a little bit of renegade in my field, but the work that I'm doing now in transpersonal psychology essentially goes like this. It essentially goes what we humans are dealing with, the reason we can't make positive change, and in my way of looking at this, tyler and I think you and I are in complete alignment here, based on some of the things I heard you said and the way I look at it I look at it as, like, each individual needs to step up to his or her authentic self, and in doing that, in growing ourselves and learning, we get to teach and create for others. So to me. I think there's learn, teach, love. That's why we're on the planet. Love meaning, create for others, which I think you're in complete alignment with, based on what you said.

Speaker 1:

However, I think people can't learn if they're stuck in old stories of let's not call it trauma, because it's a little too cliche but old stories about safety and security, acceptance and belonging. They're trying to find their way in a world that can be fairly toxic and confusing. So, based on that, though, we form what I would call misguided unconscious decisions mud. Right. So this mud, these misguided unconscious decisions, occur in our psyches at times when we are child development, adolescent development, even adulthood. Right, like you and I, lose our jobs. Suddenly you form mud. You don't have the knowledge, experience, know-how, maturity to deal with that. You walk in on your lover cheating on you. That's mud. You're not going to be able to deal with that, but what I think is happening is that people are getting stuck in this mud, and the way to begin to heal from it is to get people back into the brain states and even the nervous system state where that mud first formed Alpha states, theta states, sympathetic states and then teach the nervous system through parasympathetic states and maybe even moving into gamma states and other states to process this information. So this is the general sort of thesis and what I am interested in and one of the major reasons I wanted to talk to you is I'm interested in how we use our breath, how we use music and how we use music and how we use visualization and storytelling to drop into these alpha theta or go up higher into the gamma brainwave state, so that we can begin to heal some of this mud.

Speaker 1:

And now I know you as a musician and you make your own music. When we were talking offline, I was like, oh, I know you're a DJ, do you know you make your own music? We were talking offline. I was like, oh, you know, I know you're a DJ. Do you do you know breathwork tracks and stuff like that? And you're like, yeah, I make my own, coming from this place.

Speaker 1:

But this is one area. Now there's many areas. This is just one area where I think perhaps science is right beginning to understand how to do some of this. So from my perspective, here's what it might look like incorporating Tyler's work right, we go into and we've done certain things like this right, where people will go to certain places in Peru and Europe and go into some of these ancient structures and listen to certain music or go into certain meditative states, maybe even using psychedelic compounds and things like that, and you hear these stories of profound insights. You hear these stories of shifting awareness, complete perception, altering that sticks.

Speaker 1:

We know that people who do some of this stuff whether it be psychedelics or meditation they come out. If you take personality tests, their openness trait goes from less openness to maximum openness and it just stays that way. And so all of that, just to see not that you have an answer to any of this, but just for me to present this to you, and just see your thoughts on how your work may dovetail into this, because you're doing such amazing things that I know that you're interested in the health and fit. You know healthcare aspects of it as well. So when I say this to you and for the listeners, does it bring anything to mind for you? Where do you think you know some of this technology and some of these new things that you're uncovering, putting together in a particular way for us, can take us?

Speaker 2:

Man. You hit a lot of points there, man. So the, the. I want to start with the um, that mud concept that you're talking about. I don't really think you can move out of it until you're in an appropriate brain state, and I'm pretty sure you said that, um, and the overwhelming that there this isn't even a debate anymore. The, the.

Speaker 2:

The best thing you can do for your mental health health that's free and easy to do is meditate. And the thing that I notice in my personal life is when I stop or when I get off track with that, my life tends to become more chaotic. I feel like I retain more of that mud, whether it's the little stuff or bigger stuff, and it just kind of clouds my vision and I get less creative, I get less motivated, I get more stressed out. And if you're going down that path and you're, or you constantly live in that path and and Joe Dispenza talks about this, I'm sure you're probably familiar with Dr Joe but the more you you stay in that path, that becomes your. You know your personality, your personal reality and to to break out of that, you have to really, really. It's not like you snap your fingers and you're like, boom, okay, now I can focus on the higher aspects of reality here.

Speaker 2:

No, you kind of have to integrate those, you have to deal with them, and, in my opinion, the best way to do that is meditation, and so my initial thought with all of this was well, if I can make something that makes that more efficient and gets you in a state that is more of the higher mind instead of the lower survival, scarcity mind, then that is something that I want to really look into, because I feel like music is awesome, it's fun to make a club banger, it relieves your stress, but there are useful things for these frequencies. And so what? My methodology is, as I'm combining a bunch of schools of thought here. So when the gateway process came out, I just deconstructed what was going on in the track, and it was made in the 80s, so obviously it's. They're not as layered. Well, you know like today.

Speaker 1:

I've listened to them and, by the way, just in case you all don't know what the Gateway Project is, it was a CIA, you know, sort of sanctioned training program that trained people to essentially transcend and move. They were trying to use it for, like you know, distant viewing and other types of things, but what they found is that it was absolutely real that people could do this. But correct me if I'm wrong, tyler one of the things that happened with this training is it was very difficult to train other people to do it. They knew that some people could do it, but they couldn't train a bunch of other people to do it, so they scratched the project. But this is what Tyler's referring to with the Gateway Project and they use certain types of music. So this is interesting, because I've listened to these tracks and you're right, it's older, it doesn't have the thing. So you're, you actually are working on, we're working on deconstructing this. That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so so my my goal here was to make a just a better sounding track, and then I started looking into the techniques that they were using and and I wanted to add my own that I thought were effective. So so mine start out with what's called polyrhythm, which means a rhythm that your brain cannot get ahold of. It's not a pattern, it's just there's sounds going on, it's in you know, sequential order, but there's no pattern. You can't predict it. So that goes on for about a minute, and the frequencies that it's hitting are frequencies that resonate with different parts we could call them chakras or flexes, whatever you want to call them um of the body. So I started with um, like about four of them, and one is the root, your lowest one. You'll feel it in your stomach. It's a bassy note, right. Another one is more of the mid body. If, if I were to turn up my speaker really loud, it would vibrate in the middle of your body, resonating with your lungs. The top one is a frequency that would trigger something in your mind. It would almost be like a gnat and you're like, where's that gnat? It's very high frequency, right. So those three kind of just bounce around for a little bit and your brain can't predict it, but it's registering where those frequencies are hitting.

Speaker 2:

So then, after that minute, they start to converge into a pattern. And when that pattern converges, what I do is the, the binaural, hemispherical synchronization. So I'll offset the tones. Um, what was one tone becomes two tones. And then they start to diverge frequency. And when that happens you can start to hear a pulse in your ear. It's like a wah, wah, wah.

Speaker 2:

Um, in the lower tones and in the higher tones it's more like a wobble, a high, high frequency wobble, and those start to diverge and then they converge. And when they converge it goes to mono. So what was stereo goes to mono, which means your both ears are focused only on one frequency. And then you sit there for another minute. And then those frequencies, once they after about a minute, you'll start to feel very, very comfortable and relaxed. And then what I do with the frequencies is I frequency shift them up to where I want them. So you start at this baseline level of where your body's at, you feel it in your body, and then, over about six or seven minutes, depending on how long the track is, they slowly go up. It's not even noticeable If you're focusing on it, you can't even hear it.

Speaker 2:

It's only like maybe a hundred Hertz for the highest frequency, the lower one goes up by one Hertz and you just, it's very not noticeable, but what you do notice is is an elevated feeling, so that to me, um, after you do that a while, uh, and the longer you do it is is obviously more effective. After you do that a while, and the longer you do it is is obviously more effective. It really the best way I can say it is is it makes you feel a lot more coherent.

Speaker 1:

It feels like your body is actually connected to your mind. It's yeah, this is. I'm loving. This is so fascinating. Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 2:

It's on. It's a weird feeling too, cause you'll start it, and I mean some. You know you wake up in like a chaotic mindset. But this 10 minute one I do when I have a really busy day and it just really like my mind feels like it's, it's balanced. If, if I, if I can it's hard to describe because, like you, you know when you have a headache and you can feel it in a certain part of your head, this kind of would would take that and maybe just like blend it in your entire entire mind, not even a headache.

Speaker 2:

If you're focused on something and it's like lighting up a part of your mind, this kind of just smooths it out right and it gets everything centered, everything working properly, and and studies with with the binaural stuff too, have showed that it actually does level out the level of electrical activity in both hemispheres. So if you're really you're really focused on the logical stuff you got to do today and it's stressing you out, that's really going to hinder your creativity on finding the solutions to those problems. But at the same time, if you're also in this creative mode where you just want to draw or paint or make music, you still have bills to pay, right, you still got to do stuff that keeps your life going and sometimes you kind of, you know, focus on those too much. What I noticed with this is, no matter what state I'm in, it balances me to to aim the ship where I need, to aim it Right. So it's more of a reset for me and I'm still working on a lot of this stuff and the my, my research in this is multifaceted too.

Speaker 2:

I do the. I look at it in the cymatics when I'm making these things. I look at the frequency spectrum, I look at the, the stereo spectrum, where it's going in your head and how all of this affects my thinking internally, like from from my perspective, and also what, what is this doing electrically? I have this little headband that can read your, your brainwaves not probably as accurate as it should be, but but I mean it's a good data point to have you know so.

Speaker 2:

So I'm I'm taking, like, like you said, a different approach to this and I don't know if anyone is really other than the you know Monro Institute who did the gateway project, really kind of dived really deep on on optimizing the meditative process, and a lot of people will kind of go against that saying that you know it's not about. It's not about focusing on that. The point of meditation is to be, you know, the observer, to let things you know just flow as they will. But sometimes, if you're you're an experienced meditator, you know that it takes like it can take 15 minutes to get into a state of, of of mental calmness. And, uh, I, what I'm just noticing with this is that I can get in that state much quicker with this and I have a much more effective meditative journey, I guess, uh, when I listen to those tracks.

Speaker 1:

so yeah, and tyler, this is why I mean I'm so excited to have to have a conversation about you and I working together on this, because because, just for you, the listener, when I hear this, what Tyler is referring to same thing. For me, man, it basically goes like this being a health practitioner, we need efficient tools to elevate our healing, to learn and also to elevate humanity one step at a time. So, from my perspective, I think this stuff has been. When I was looking at your stuff, the first thing that I'm saying I'm like the ancients, you know, sort of we're trying to do the same thing by, by putting themselves in these temples that are creating particular resonance by getting in there and using certain tones in their voices by you know, even when you look back at that, you know the, the drumming and the pounding and the dancing. It's like the use of these frequencies to get you in these altered states. And why is this important? Because we can't and I think you and I agree on this we can't grow as humans if we're chained to past dramas, traumas, trials, tribulations, difficulties. We can't actually elevate to our authentic next level, human self.

Speaker 1:

So, from my perspective, I have been on a journey to find the fastest way to get people to break through these things. Now, from my perspective, you still got to go out in the world and be it. It's not like we get to just breathe a particular way, listen to Tyler's music and stuff like that, just breathe a particular way, listen to Tyler's music and stuff like that. And, by the way, just so you know, tyler, for me I'm like what I'm working on is breath and storytelling in the process, and I'll give Tyler a background on this, and then all of you and I know we got about 15 minutes so I want to be respectful of your time but now imagine we take Tyler's music that he's generating right, and now imagine that we go some of these low frequencies down into the lower areas where safety and security concerns sort of live, if we look at the chakras from that perspective. And then we began to bring up childhood events like myself getting left at a baseball field when I was six years old into the night. That wasn't an abuse, I wasn't sexually abused or physically abused, but this was a traumatic event, simple event, no one's fault, but it lives in my lower sort of level. So now imagine we bring in your music. We set these particular tones to resonate in that area, I bring in a script like a safety security script, but it could be anything fighting a dragon confronting a demon, any of these kinds of things, and the music is essentially promoting this.

Speaker 1:

And I do a very fast paced breath to enhance the sympathetic, so maybe a holotropic style breath, double breath, and I push that as the music is going to resonate in this area, as I am, you know, sort of conjuring this visual image for you and it doesn't matter what the image is, it just matters that you are confronting your safety and security needs and your concerns and we go through this process and then we sort of elevate that right after, let's say, to the higher levels or to the heart focus center. We come in with emotions like love and appreciation and excitement and vitality and reprogram it this way. This for you, the listener, and for Tyler hearing this the first time, I know that he's probably very much understanding where I'm going with this. But this to me is a short way versus spending five, 10 years in therapy which does not get to the unconscious mind what I have seen. In my rudimentary way of doing it, without the music technology, just with breath work and visualization, storytelling. I can move people through five to 10 of these sessions to clearing some of these chains. That's what I'm interested in, adding sort of the music onto.

Speaker 1:

And of course, I'm interested in your putting together this idea that the ancients were aware of this in some powerful way that we need to bring back. And so this is the major thing that I think is really powerful in the work that we can do when we get different practitioners coming in that understand this stuff and then even doing some of the work you mentioned. Joe Dispenza and I know he's doing some of this work where he's using imagery as well. So now he's got the music, he's got imagery, he's got the breath work and sort of this visualization thing. So this is what I am also interested in, like you in beginning to take this on, of course I'm that we don't spend half of our lives reliving these traumatic events, waiting for the apology, hoping, you know, getting over the regret, getting over the hurt. I mean, people live their whole lives and die at 80 as adolescents and we don't have time for that as a society. We need to elevate. So that's sort of my pitch to you, tyler. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2:

Man, again, every time you speak. I got like three points I got to nail now. Well, okay, the most important one. You look like you go to the gym quite a bit. Am I wrong here?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I also go to the donut gym, but yeah, I go to both.

Speaker 2:

I go to that same gym yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love both of those gyms.

Speaker 2:

So when you go to the gym you listen to music, right, 100%, 100%, 100%. So certain music. Like you're not going to put on some Celine Dion at the gym, are you?

Speaker 1:

Nope, yeah, so you know what I listen to? More EDM now, but I used to listen to hardcore, angry, hardcore rap and Tool or something a little bit animalistic. But now interesting and you may have some thoughts on this. Now I really am liking hardcore edm with a hard beat. No, no music that's.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly what I listen to at at the gym too. But if I if my things on shuffle and a song comes on that's not fitting with my workout, I immediately I'll stop a set and I'll go change the song. Right, something in the music unlocks some energy in you. You know, if you're going through a breakup, you don't want to hear like some happy, happy, joyous song, right, you want to hear a breakup song. You want to hear someone going through the breakup and and how they got better or how they just like are dealing with this in the song. Those are are bookmarks for feelings, for the. All of these frequencies are bookmarks that unlock a certain type of emotion inside of you, right? Whether you want to believe the science on that or not, I can show you everybody at the gym has headphones on. They're not listening to the music that's playing in the gym. Everyone there has their own music that unlocks their personal energy in there, energy in there. So what?

Speaker 2:

What I was thinking when I first started getting into this was okay, if those like a cathedral rose window has has that frequency on there, right? What does that frequency mean? What? What is that unlocking, if there's? If you look at Hindu temples. Look at the ceilings. They have a, they have a pattern on there. It's a, it's a cymatic, it looks exactly like it. Were they bookmarking the frequency that you had to hit to unlock that? That? Whatever it did in that temple? Because every, every single one, without fail, all of them have used there's some core ingredients to a temple and they all have to do with water. So water is the easiest way to view frequency because it is a, it's a fluid medium. It responds very quickly to the sound. So you put a bowl of water and you hit a certain frequency, that water will resonate and it will show you that pattern. Right, so were they? Were they using that to decode the? What unlocked the architecture? The healing property, the, the, the use for that frequency in the architecture? That is my.

Speaker 2:

My biggest focus right now is if, if I can get some even boots on the ground to try this out, is is my real mission. But, um, expanding on that, the, what they did there and we we kind of touched on it before is they. They did link all of the what you're talking about. They have beautiful works of art on the wall. They have these perfect geometric figures expressing symmetry, proportion, beauty. It's unlocking that part of your visual mind. You've got the frequency that's going straight to the vagus nerve. You've got probably a lot of people around you sharing that experience. You're feeling them as well. The more of these senses that you can link, you're confirming in your mind that this is, this is helping, and even at the minimum, we know the placebo effect is real. So even if they're just, they're just tapping into a little bit of the placebo effect, it's probably 10 times more effective than any placebo trial that we've ever done, just because they have so many things that that in your mind are confirming this is what's happening.

Speaker 2:

I came into this temple to heal my my ailments. Everyone here is supporting me. All of this stuff was built around me to do this, and these guys clearly know what they're talking about. They have the frequency on the wall, like you know. So so that that to me is like is is really the, the.

Speaker 2:

The decoding thing that I'm trying to do is is figure out okay, how did, how did this actually interact with either the environment or the human body, or for physical phenomena within the, you know, scientific realm? Whatever it is, I want to know what it is and, and apparently a ton of other people do too and you're all these alternative methods of healing and exploring these, these new things are becoming so popular because I think people are just they're tired of looking at these, the commercials for these drugs, and then half the commercial is the side effects. Half the commercial is the thing that you okay, don't do, take this If you're this and this and this, this could cause this and this and this. We've had that for 30 years now. And and not saying that there's not use for that there's so many advancements that we've made in the medical field and and I hate it when people take it like I'm talking trash on that there's so many angelic beings that work in the healthcare field. I'm in no way throwing the baby out with the bathwater there. I just think that we're we're trying to take the bandaid solution for these problems, like what you're saying are deep, emotional, rooted problems from either childhood or intense trauma, and you're trying to solve it with a pill. It's just not going to work. It never works.

Speaker 2:

I've never seen somebody I've I've seen people to have go into the psychedelic trials with PTSD and come out completely different. I've seen people that have, you know, even on a music festival level, go to a music festival and have the most spiritual experience they've ever had with their friends, and then they're a different person. Experience they've ever had with their friends, and then they're a different person. So those to me, I want to focus on that. That's what changed my life and I want to explain that in the best way that I can. And if I have, you know, a gift for doing that, then I hope I've tapped into it and I can use that to the benefit of humanity. That's that's really my, my goal. But but on a personal level too, is I'm kind of chasing that high. Honestly, it happened for me my first festival, my first concert experience. I loved it. I was like I can do that, I want to do that, and all of this.

Speaker 2:

They clearly did something that helped their entire community back in the day. It's not impossible to do that now. It's not impossible to do that for your own town, for your own. You know the people in your life. If you have something that that genuinely helps and and affects you in a positive way and you see someone else, your best friend, struggling with it, you have the tools to help them. You know that's that's to me. It's just giving people that that power back, instead of going to the, to the physician, and having them diagnose you with something you know definitely keep up with your health but also try these things. They're free, they're easy. There's no downside to meditation or things like that, and I think you can agree, too, that the benefits that you get just for trying these things often last for the majority of your life. I haven't stopped meditating since I started. There's so many habits that I've gained from this that I'm so grateful for.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, man, and I'll tell you what. Final thoughts as we wrap up. From my perspective, being in the healthcare field since 15, I started personal training at 15, naturopathic medicine, I went away from conventional and now psychology I can tell you, tyler I'll just reinforce what you're saying I have not seen, which is why I'm doing this work. A lot of people are like Jade you had such a name for yourself in the world of metabolism and you know you sold all these workouts. You know why are you coming into this realm? Because I'm a guy who wants to find stuff that works. I don't care where it comes from, I'm just a dude who wants to find what works and what I can say without a shadow of a doubt.

Speaker 1:

I have seen people, I've seen healings I can't explain, let's just put it that way and stuff that I wouldn't necessarily speak about because it just makes you look like a woo-woo type of person. And I am an evidence-based guy. But I do think you and me and people like us are onto something here. We have to continue following this path to make impact. And, dude, I honestly think you're just a brilliant, authentic mind. So thank you for seriously, thank you for expressing it and, by the way, thank you for being accessible for all of us and for all of you listening. I just want you to kind of first of all, follow Tyler on Instagram. That's where I follow him, but he's also on TikTok. He's Bass Forge in both places. I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Bass Forge rather Bass Forge on both places, the bass meaning the music, not bass like the fish.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, so definitely follow him there. And, man, I want to. I'm hoping me and you can do some work together to build some of these what I might call hero's journeys with music and stuff. You're really blowing my mind. I'm excited to find you as a new teacher for myself. So thank you for that. All of you go get this is the book I have that is like. I've already kind of gone through it twice Codex Esoterica. It's a lot, but it will give you Tyler's sort of basic, what he's essentially teaching. And that's all I have to say, man, just my deep gratitude. Anything you want to leave us with final thoughts.

Speaker 2:

So I always say this at the end of these things like I didn't. I never planned on doing this at all. I just I really got into what you were saying, my authentic pursuit, what I, what I wanted to talk about you know, and really try to share it as authentically as possible, and that has completely changed my life. I was researching this for five years before I said anything publicly and I really do think that it's now, this is the best time to do this. If you're interested in any of this, open the door, see what you're interested in, because right now is a pretty critical time in humanity where a lot of people need a lot of help, and me and you can only do so much. Even though we have platforms. It's going to take a whole lot of effort to actually do some positive change and whatever you can do to do that, like I said, I'm committed to providing as many resources as possible.

Speaker 2:

I also have a school. If anyone else is interested in diving really deep on that. We teach all kinds of things, from the meditation stuff to the temple, science, sacred geometry All of it's a gateway. All of it's a gateway into expanding the mind, becoming a higher, conscious being that can help the people around you, and I appreciate the work that you're doing, man, to spread this and you're an intelligent guy. We need more people like you are willing to explore these things. That maybe would. If you were in your medical field, you would kind of get criticized for talking to me about some of this stuff, but now I think we're both going to get criticized, as we know, yeah, but now's the time to kind of take a stand and be like I think we're both gonna get criticized, as we know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, but it's, it's. Now is the time to kind of take a stand and be like no, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about this and and thankfully, we're evidence-based too, and and I try and provide as much as possible, but, but yeah, we just more more people on board with this, the better yeah, 100.

Speaker 1:

And that school one more time is the mystery school. Is that what it is on your website? It's called the forge.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's called the forge. It's hosted on schoolcom. Uh, yeah, it's uh right right now 20 bucks a month, so cancel anytime, whatever you are wanting to look into. I've got something for you, sweet, so the forge on school.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm, I'm using kajabi right now. Maybe I'll go over to school. But anyway, tyler, my man, thank you so much for your time. Do me a a favor, stay on the line. I just want to make sure this loads up For all of you. I hope you enjoyed Tyler Engel. I hope you will check him out, get his books, go do the Forge on schoolcom. Definitely get into his work and we will see you at the next show. Thank you, everybody.