Top Rules For Coaches: Tools And Techniques To Be A Better Coach And Friend- Ep. 246

Speaker 1: 1:25

Welcome to the podcast everyone. Today I'm with two of my best friends in the world. They have come down to visit me in my hometown of Asheville and we've been master mining and we decided to put a podcast together. And this is a podcast for three people who have been coaching for a very long time combined years, it's probably what over 50 years, I don't know. Ray and I've been doing it a long time. Danny's been doing it a long time.

Speaker 1: 1:51

The topic is really what makes a great coach, so rules of great coaches. So for those of you who are professionals, for those of you who are looking to get into the coaching industry, and I would even say for those of you who aren't coaches and are just good friends to family and peers and coworkers, someone who other people come to for advice, you're acting as a coach as well, and so you're gonna get something from this as well. And so what we're gonna do is we're kinda gonna do this in a little bit of a round Robin, and I'm gonna start with you, danny, and we're gonna talk about what our rules are for coaching and we can kinda start anywhere, and that will just kinda get us a discussion. So Danny's gonna discuss one of his top rules, and we'll go to Ray, we'll go to me and you may find us commenting on that, but hopefully you'll enjoy the discussion today, so why don't you get us kicked off, danny? What, from your perspective, makes a great coach? What are one of your top roles that you like to teach?

Speaker 2: 2:56

Yeah, so this is well. First, I'll say I would like to say just something like when we're preparing this pod and all weekend. One of the reasons I thought this would be a good idea is because we've been talking about coaching and our approaches to it, our experiences with it, all weekend and a lot of times we kinda disagree or maybe just perceive it through a different lens. And I thought this could kinda be cool for us to list our top rules of coaching each and then we can kinda open the floor and maybe disagree with each other a little bit. I think that would be good for the audience to see kinda where they land as well. So my first rule, if I'm kicking this thing off I made a list here just in case you guys stole one of mine but my number one overall and I've been advocating this to my people a lot lately is, I guess I'll just call it you have to have the ability to connect, basically social skills. I think this is of the utmost importance. My experience directing a team of coaches this is interesting. I don't even know if you know this, jay.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Jay and I built this program together, we hired these coaches together and I oversaw the coaching team and one of the things that really stuck out to me was that the top coach we had, by far in every category the data showed this, from retention to going on to the next level and re-upping their package to customer satisfaction, to actual client results was also probably the least knowledgeable about metabolism, about hormones, about really health and fitness at all. There was a woman who was in her 50s and coaching and training was a career she picked up after retiring from a lifetime in sales, so she really didn't have all this background or experience. We liked her a lot, we hired her and she just blew it out of the water. And the difference was when I was paying attention to her stuff. She just knew how to connect with people.

Speaker 2: 4:39

She would remember their kid's name. She would remember oh, how was vacation at this particular spot? She would ask them follow up, did you get that resolved at your job? How did that end up happening? She just remembered things about their life. So they felt safe, they opened up to her, they shared things with her that they may have not shared with another coach. So to me, connection is my number one rule of great coaching. It goes to that old quote it doesn't matter. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So paying attention to the human element of your clients is the utmost importance from my perspective. So my first rule is the ability to connect or have social skills.

Speaker 1: 5:15

Yeah, it didn't get funny right that Danny would choose that at his first cause. He's a master. Anyone who knows Danny. If you all knew Danny, you would be like he's the one who connects the easiest to people. So it is actually something that you're just incredible at, ray. How about you, man? What's your top role?

Speaker 3: 5:33

Coaching is a unique profession in that it's one of the few professions where somebody can go and have a conversation with somebody else that is entirely one-sided, like where was the last time where you didn't feel like you need to reciprocate in a conversation? You know, if I were to compliment you, you'd feel obligated to compliment me back, and with coaching that is. I feel like that's one of the superpowers of coaching is you've got somebody here who's asking you questions, who's here entirely for you, and if it's a great coach, one of the things that great coaches do is they're able to separate the drama of their own life and their own biases towards what's right and what's wrong, to open it up. Open up that space, you know, they say. You know, hold that space for the other client who is sitting in front of them, and I feel like that's something that the best coaches really master.

Speaker 3: 6:37

Like, when you sit down with one of these coaches where that is just an elite coach and to a great extent, we get that with you is when you're talking to you, we feel like you know we're the only people in the room, and I think that's why you and Danny are such successful coaches is because you have that ability to set your own stuff aside and and really connect with the person in a way and I guess this comes down to what you were talking about, danny, as well, as part of that connection Is insane. I'm here for you Entirely like in this time together. This is about you, this is about your desires, is about what's going on in your life and good coaches able to kind of pull their their own stuff out and set it aside for that time and you know, the really world-class coaches know how to do that to really high level.

Speaker 1: 7:37

Yeah, it's interesting, right. We talk we, you, the three of us oftentimes talk about charisma, right? So power, presence, warmth, and it seems like that connection piece is the presence factor, it's the ability to be present, and to be present means you're there 1000% for them. I love that. I would say my, my top rule goes right along with the two of you and I would call it the rule of humanity, and I think this is just a rule of Every good friend should have, and it basically is this idea that to let people know that they're only human.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Someone comes with a problem. There's often shame around it, there's embarrassment around it, there's this idea that I'm no good, I'm a failure. There's a lot of self worth wrapped up in what people are going through, and one of the first things that I think we humans need to do is to recognize that we all suffer. None of us are without our missteps and mishaps and mistakes and to essentially just let people know look, you're only human. Humans mess up, humans have mistakes. You are valuable in that you're no different, no worse than anyone else, and I think the law of humanity is something that a lot of our friends now, a lot of coaches, forget this piece and it's very simple way to do the law of humanity. It is just to say, hey, you know, you're only human, right, it's just to simply call that out. We forget to do that as friends.

Speaker 1: 9:03

What that does to me is that's the opening gambit of a good coach, to essentially help someone understand that, hey, they're only normal Humans, mess up and it's okay to just be human. The other thing that does is it basically says you're safe here, you're safe with me. I get it. Let's begin to have a conversation that goes into. I'll open it up with my second rule.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Then we'll go back to Danny, which is the rule of empathy, because these are so related and the rule of empathy is slightly different, from my perspective, than the rule of humanity because it the rule of humanity says hey, you're only human, and the rule of empathy goes God, I just can't imagine you're doing such a good job. That's like. That's so hard. And to me that's the opening gambit of a good coach, just to let someone know I heard you, you're only human. That must be so difficult. And to me it's like I feel like when someone goes into a room and is going to get coast, or almost holding their breath a little bit what this is going to be like, especially if there, if it's their first coaching session. And I think these two rules, my first two rules that humanity in the law of empathy, essentially let someone exhale, and I think it goes right along with what you two said.

Speaker 2: 10:14

I definitely think, though, those two kind of compliment each other is that old Carl Rogers quote the great, the goat psychologist. From my perspective, carl Rogers, he says, of course the great paradox Is that I cannot change until I feel accepted for who I am. So it's kind of that's like the year. The baseline is like first you got to do, it's okay, your human. Maybe you made some mistakes, maybe there were some bad choices along the way, but you're still worthy human being. Like it's it's okay, and that is a good foundational place For for growth and change. It's actually, I think, it's essential. So I love that you brought that. I had that on my list as well. My second rule and I'll be interested to see what you think- let me just comment on that, because I have a similar.

Speaker 3: 13:28

You know, that's that's something I do tell clients when they vocalize that they messed up. You know, perhaps they said they were going to do something for the week. They come back into the session and they didn't get it done. And maybe they did something. Or maybe they did something that goes against, almost counter to their goals that they set for themselves. And one thing I'll tell them. I'll say look, there's only one reason we humans do anything, and that is because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Speaker 3: 14:00

And when you think of it like that, then you start to look for the good intention behind everything that you do. You know even the stuff that you hate about yourself, even the things that you label as bad in your life. Or you know, why did I smoke then? Well, you know, I said I'm not going to smoke. I said I'm going to quit smoking. Well, you know what are you doing when you smoke. Well, I talked to my friends. Well, the good intention there is, that's connection for you and that's at the heart of it. Okay, so when you can accept that, hey, there's a good intention for me smoking Now, we have something we can work with. But when we ignore that, when we fight it, you know, when we resist it, then we can't. We can't deal with it, right.

Speaker 2: 14:51

Totally. Yeah, I had nothing else to add to that concept. I think that's. That's really good as well. Ray, I think my second rule would be we'll call it the rule of dialogue.

Speaker 2: 15:01

So one of the things that I noticed with coaches is kind of funny. Actually, just more often than not, coaches are really nervous. Like what if I say the wrong thing or what? What if I don't have the right, right words or whatever? More often than not, something really obvious happens in a coaching call. Maybe a client opens up and it's it's like a really good breakthrough and there's an opportunity to have a conversation. Or maybe they're just it could be anything. Maybe they're just perpetually late. Or maybe you offer a suggestion I've seen this on a lot of coaching calls coaches will give like, all right, here's what I think we should do Tell me what you think, and a client will visibly roll their eyes or visibly like sighing and like slouching their chair on these Zoom calls and I remember watching these videos and the coach would just kind of continue on because it's uncomfortable. She's like okay, I guess let's talk about the next thing, right? So they scoot it on.

Speaker 2: 15:49

So I say the rule of dialogue is really about what I always say is give it oxygen. So if you notice something, do it in a non-judgmental, curious way. But if you notice an eye roll, just just have that discussion. Like, hey, I noticed you rolled your eyes a little bit there, I'm getting that. You don't love that suggestion? Tell me about that. Have you tried that in the past? Just having a discussion around the uncomfortable clients who are perpetually late, a lot of coaches goes, no, don't worry about it, and this continues on. No, let's have that conversation. Maybe this isn't a good time for us to meet. Is there another day that would be better for you? Or they kind of open up and share a big thing to say, wow, that was, that was a big thing you just shared. Let's just let's hold up a minute. I'm not going to skip over that. That's a big deal, let's talk more about that.

Speaker 2: 16:30

So I call it the rule of dialogue, I guess, for talking the rules of coaching, and I always just tell coach, give it oxygen.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Things that you notice, just bring to the surface in a very in a very transparent, non-judgmental way, and clients kind of like that a little bit Lawyers, to call it, taking the sting out of it. So what they'll do is they'll go up to the jury and they'll name every shitty thing about their case, all the bad things about their case, and by acknowledging that it kind of takes away the pain because it takes, it's more transparent, it's on the surface Then they attack each one of those points. So same thing as us as coaches, let's take the sting out of it. There's something uncomfortable and uncomfortable conversation that needs to be had. I would encourage coaches just to gently have that conversation. And it's like jumping into a cold pool a little cold and fridge it at first and it shocks your body. But after you're a better coach, the relationship is stronger and honestly, it's like it gets rid of that just lingering thing, whatever that might be. So I'll call it the rule of dialogue Give it oxygen, have the conversation, whatever it is repeated struggle you're having with your clients.

Speaker 1: 17:27

You know, I like that one because it has a hidden benefit, and those of you who are not coaches but good friends, I think, could heed this rule as well, because the hidden benefit is is that, okay, this isn't like every other relationship, right? This relationship is an honest one. This is a relationship where I'm actually going to be called to account and accepted, right, and an honest relationship. And the hidden benefit is is that the people who aren't ready for real dialogue and real results and real coaching, may you may lose them in that regard. They may not be down for that kind of honest conversation, but the ones who are, you're going to know that they're kind of ready for results and even friends.

Speaker 1: 18:08

I always say honesty is kinder than kindness, and I think this is that idea of not letting those things go just to be kind or go along to get along, but, as you say, hey, let's talk about that. So the hidden benefit is establishing the kind of relationship that is unique to coaching that they can't get anywhere else. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that, ray, and then I'd love to hear your next one.

Speaker 3: 18:29

Yeah, I would say that it's a requirement of good coaching. Like you cannot, you cannot let people skate over the difficult parts of their lives, because that's where the gold lives right, that's where you're going to find the gold and the diamonds and the you know. All of the magic that happens in coaching is the reason people come to you as a coach is they're, generally speaking, they feel stuck in their life. They feel stuck at least in the compartment of their life. If you're a business coach and they come to you, they feel stuck in their business. If you're a relationship coach, they feel stuck in their relationship and you know you can't skate over the things that bring discomfort in the moment, and especially as a coach. And I'd be interested to hear your opinion on this, because I've heard coaches say you know, coaches don't deal with problems, Coaches don't. Coaches are not about problems. Coaching is about, you know, helping people to play the game of life better.

Speaker 1: 19:25

So what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, that's interesting. I would. I would disagree with that, ashley. I think coaching is about problems and specifically the patterns in people's lives, living life and these patterns that cause problems. So you can call it patterns or you can call it problems, but it's both the same thing to me. So, yeah, I would disagree with that. I think it is about problems and I do think that problems are what people bring. That's why they come to coaching in the first place. So I'm surprised to hear that someone would say that, actually, because I think at least the perception is they have a problem, otherwise they wouldn't be sitting in front of you.

Speaker 3: 20:04

Yeah, yeah. How would you guys define coaching? I mean, that's an interesting question. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 1: 20:11

Is this your second rule? Do you want to go first? How do you?

Speaker 3: 20:13

define it. I've heard a few different definitions, you know I gave you one of them, which was a coach is a professional best friend, and that kind of goes to my first point, which was that a coach is, it's a. It's a. It's really a one directional relationship where you don't have to worry about reciprocation, you don't need to worry about judgment, you don't need to worry about any of that, because that person is here just for you and there's no other area in life where you get that, by the way.

Speaker 1: 20:44

I just want to say that's the best definition I have ever heard for coach a professional best friend. I absolutely love that.

Speaker 3: 20:52

I was a bit surprised that you like that one.

Speaker 2: 20:54

Yeah, I think I am too man. I think I'm surprised you like that one too. Yeah, I don't know why, but when you said that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:00

I am.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Hey, me too, I'm surprised yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:02

I love it and I also think it's great for the best friends who are listening Right, because the other thing I like about that as I go truth of the matter is everyone should understand coaching. That's why I like this episode, because, whether you're a professional coach or not, you need to understand these tactics because they work if you want to help your friends.

Speaker 2: 21:23

Maybe it bothers me a little bit because best friend should mean. To me it should mean like unconditional, and coaching feels more transactional. Typically there's money involved. Typically there's a power dynamic. The coach is typically the one with the knowledge and one with expertise and guiding the sense which one's the sensei, the mentor or the mentee?

Speaker 3: 21:44

The mentor and mentor.

Speaker 2: 21:45

Yeah, they're the sensei and you have your Pat won, thank you.

Speaker 1: 21:49

Well, here's why I think best friend, because the reason why is the best friend is the best friend because they are the person who will tell you the hard stuff. Number one and number two, they are the people who you will take the hard stuff from. And so I like professional best friend because that's what a coach does. They should help you point out the hard stuff. Now, what's different from a coach and a best friend is a coach isn't going to come out and just tell you they really want you. There's some skill involved with letting the person find that.

Speaker 1: 22:20

My next rule would essentially be that it's the law of questioning. It's that you have to be an amazing questioner and primarily socratic questioning, open-ended questioning. There's lots of ways to do this, one of the ones I know we all use, but the mirroring to me is actually one of the most elegant ways to do questioning. Someone says something. Of course the three of us know this, but those of you listening may not know this. This is a very popular way, but if you're sitting there with your friend and they say really frightened, you just essentially say you're frightened and that opens the space and that's a form of questioning. And then it's basically like other questions, like have you thought about why you're frightened, have you thought about what you're going to do? And you essentially just ask and ask and ask, because usually when someone is wanting coaching or advice, what they're really wanting to do is what they can't do by themselves, which is vent and get rebounds right, take shots and have thoughts and actually vent and be able to have someone say here's what I think about that and just air it out.

Speaker 1: 23:31

And so I think the law of questioning is next, and the Socratic part of that is essentially really questioning in a way to get them to question whether or not that story is true, because people are telling themselves stories all the time that oftentimes are false narratives. And a coach who is a good questioner without saying, hey, do you really think that's true? Just by in the way they ask the question, get people to kind of go oh, maybe that's not true. And so I think, being an expert in question, asking and the other, the final way I'd say you can ask questions is simply by silence.

Speaker 1: 27:33

It's another way to ask a question when someone says something and you say nothing, that's actually a question in a form right, because it's basically saying okay, I guess I got a. What is it on me? You want me to say more? Yeah, I do. And sometimes a really good coach will even say something along the lines of hey, you're not going to get away with that. There's a little bit more there. Tell me more, right? And so there's lots of different ways to ask these questions, and I would say that is a very important part of this, and I think a lot of especially new coaches get this wrong and a lot of best friends don't realize they want to quickly give advice when the questioning actually gets the person to give their own advice. Oftentimes then you don't even have to do the work because they solve it themselves, which is the best way to go.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Yeah, there's a talk about the silence thing which I still struggle with, Silence too long. I'm like, all right, let's get it going Listen to something else.

Speaker 2: 28:26

But there's Japanese. Businessmen know that Americans do not like silence, so they'll sit there at the negotiation table and just Americans play. Here's our first offer, and the Japanese say nothing and the Americans cannot take it. Okay, actually, here's a second offer for a little less money, or for a little more money, we'll give you more. Okay, here's the third off. Like the Japanese, just sit there and all of a sudden they have a third. Their first offers three times higher than it would have been otherwise. So it's interesting that silence is a really powerful tool If you can pull it off, which I have not been able to do yet, but I've been practicing that, actually conscious, that's a good. All those are really good techniques for questioning. I like that, ray. Did you have a second rule, man, or you just? You just posed a question. I'm recording them off.

Speaker 1: 29:09

We gotta read that I actually think Ray's second question was a really powerful one, because it's basically like hey, one of the most important rules of coaching is know what the hell a coach is. So it's funny how Ray always does that right. He's always, he's always subtle in the way he approaches it, like if you need to know what a good, a good coach is, and so I really liked that. That was like that pot probably could be the first rule of all of this your, your second rule, like it's this idea of like you better know what a coach actually is.

Speaker 3: 29:34

Did you have a definition of coach that you really like?

Speaker 1: 29:37

Uh, you know, yes, I do, and to me a coach is a pattern spotter. That's the best way he they are an expert at spotting patterns that get people stuck. They're expert at that and call it stories and expert at you know, spotting the stories. But I would say that, uh, my definition of a coach is to spot the patterns that cause the problems. That's ultimately what an expert coach is. The best coach is spot the patterns that cause the problems.

Speaker 2: 30:06

I once heard the definition, because I don't know if it's a definition of a coach, but a coach, a coach, basically a great coach basically says I have high standards for you, I know that you can reach them. In case you don't, I will be here to support you. That's kind of I really liked that. Says it's like high standards, like yeah, push them a little bit, that's your job as a coach. Give them that belief that they can hit those and even if they don't be the supportive person who has their back, that it's, it's okay. There's all part of the process to coach them through that and I've always really liked that definition.

Speaker 3: 30:38

Yeah, another definition I heard was from a professional football coach who said a coach is somebody who makes you do what you don't want to do so you can be who you want to be. Yeah, and the truth is, the real definition of coach probably is going to be a combination of all of these things together, in small, some pieces of this and pieces of that, but in essence, what would you? What would you say is the essence of coaching? Like, essentially, it's you and I are going to talk, and this is what makes it a hard sell for a lot of people. You and I are going to talk and your life is going to change. I mean, that's essentially what coaching is, and without the change, without the transformation, is it still coaching?

Speaker 1: 31:23

100%. Yes, from my perspective. Yes, I actually think that, and it goes to sort of Danny's first role right of this person who didn't necessarily have the skill set and you'll even see this a lot, and all of us coaches know this, but three of us have talked about that this weekend that oftentimes you don't get results right. So the idea that a good coach always gets results, I don't know that that's the case. A good coach always relates. A good coach is always there for you. A good coach is in the humanness and the mess with you and people will stay with that coach forever, even if they don't get results. And so that tells you something about that and we can argue about well, if you're not getting results and they're paying you and I get that argument. But I would say that the best coaches sometimes don't. That's why I again go back to your definition the professional best friend. Sometimes the best result is that someone feels human and heard and understood, because they can get that nowhere else in their life and that has nothing to do with an exchange of culturally successful, and that's the other thing I'll just throw out here.

Speaker 1: 32:39

I think one of the biggest mistakes, as you guys know, this is my high horse, but one of the biggest mistakes we make is to judge all of our lives through success in these very, very narrow domains. Like if you're not successful in relationships, then you're horrible and you're not a good person. If you don't have money and done something of value in the corporate world, then you're no good. If you don't have a six pack and you're not lean, then you're no good, and I just reject all of that. So I think a good coach shows up for people to be human and messy and that's the most valuable thing you can possibly do. So I don't know if you guys agree with that, but I'm really adamant about that.

Speaker 3: 33:17

I see I don't agree with that. I think in order for it to be a coaching relationship, there needs to be some progress in the person's life, there needs to be some transformation. Otherwise it's just a nice conversation and it's fine if that's what you want to do with clients is just have nice conversations and have them feeling nice in the end, feeling good in the end. But really people, I don't think anybody has ever woke up and said you know what I have to have a coach. Without a coach I can't survive. Really, this is the progression aspect of life. I want to progress, so therefore I find a coach. So I don't know. I would disagree and say that in my definition of a coach, transformation or, if you want to take it one notch down, progress in your life is an essential component of the coaching definition. Danny, your thoughts?

Speaker 2: 34:20

This might be a poor metaphor, but I'm just like but if a basketball coach coaches all season and never wins a game and the kids that he's coaching don't improve or progress really all season, he's still coaching. He may not be a great coach, but he's still coaching. That's what we're talking about. I do think I kind of lean towards daily. If you're showing up, you're bringing the end, you're doing your part, asking the tough questions when necessary, building them up when necessary. If you're doing your part, I say yeah, you're in the act of coaching. Now, how good you are, that can vary.

Speaker 2: 34:56

I've done this kind of informal survey probably for the past five years, just like how good actually you were. The one, jade, I asked you a long time ago, like a decade ago, and I brought this out last time I was on your pod too. You told me I was like how many, how often do you have success in the clinic? This is when you're working with patients and you're seeing them three times a week. I was like what's your success rate? And I know last time you said I don't know if that's true or not, but you guessed at the time it was around 30 to 40%, and I've been conducting this sort of informal survey. When I was in the gym personal training I asked those guys.

Speaker 2: 35:26

I've been, obviously in the past three years I've been just observing coaches and the data and what I've found is, on average, the best coaches, the best coaches succeed about 40% of the time. So I think there needs to be a little bit of grace and, just like yo, this shit is hard. The job of a coach is really really hard. So I just think not that we should just resign, that it's impossible. But I do think getting a realistic gauge of how hard this is and how realistic it is to get results is a good starting point.

Speaker 2: 35:55

And if you're going there like, yeah, I probably succeed 30% of the time, then yeah, let's see how we can get that to 35% of the time. Let's see how we can improve your skills to get it to 40% of the time. But even the best clinicians, best coaches, seemingly fail. It's like we're close to the baseball than Amazon fulfillment, like a Hall of Fame baseball player hits 300. Amazon fulfillment is that 99%, delivery on time or whatever. So I think sometimes coaches lean like I got to be Amazon fulfillment and deliver every single time. Otherwise I'm a shitty coach or I'm not doing it right, when in reality you're a Hall of Famer if you're succeeding 40% of the time.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Yeah, actually, and you know what I really. This is why I love these conversations with you guys, because you know, I think, after hearing both of your arguments, I like both in a sense, and I like mine too.

Speaker 1: 36:42

But if we go to your basketball analogy, which, you're right, is an imperfect analogy. For this, you know, Ray Ray makes a great point. Like a basketball coach. If he's being measured on basketball, who doesn't win is going to get fired, right, Like he's not going to, so he's not going to be a coach long. So I'm totally with the Ray on that. On the other hand, I go a basketball coach who is working on the development of his players, and that's more what he's about, right, he's more about win or lose.

Speaker 1: 37:12

I want to win, but I would rather prepare you to win because you're not going to be a basketball player forever. You know, I want to make good people in the world right. Then that person in my mind wins, and so I do think it's partly where we're coming from in that regard, right. And also, this brings another point about being, I think, a rule of coaching that just sort of came out of this discussion, which is to say that know the domains and know who you're dealing with. You know if you're dealing with someone I don't know if you're dealing with an Austrian or a German or someone who's very much like at least this is my perception like I'm paying you money, you better get me results, Then I think you're going to have to lean a little bit more to where Ray's at. You know you're going to have to really define what that is. But if you're dealing with someone who's a little bit like, look, I'm just here because I'm struggling a little bit in life, I'm not exactly clear on what's going on and my purpose is sort of vague, and things like that, Then the definition of success moves away from making more money, getting fit or finding a relationship and more moves to how do you feel about who you are in the world. This is what we were talking about before, where it's just like not everything gets to be and should be.

Speaker 1: 38:26

In my opinion, measured through those three metrics, To me, the most important thing and the thing that you're going to feel most fulfilled with at the end of your life is purpose and meaning, the experience you brought, the energy you brought, the example you set. I think that. So yeah, it's interesting. I depend maybe one of the roles we could say about really good coaches is to know, to know the kind of person you're dealing with. The law of individuality that's another role. So, yeah, this is why these discussions are so important and it's really good for all of us coaches to get in the room and have these discussions.

Speaker 2: 39:03

My last rule on it one more round.

Speaker 3: 39:07

Keep on going.

Speaker 2: 39:09

My last rule is this is important and most people start here and they kind of end here, but it is important. I would say it's like the rule of competence you do have to actually be good and you have to know your stuff at some point. Even the woman I shared at the beginning, who's a super connector, she was also very growth-oriented and she dove into the education and she took feedback really well and she got better at the area that she wasn't great in at first, which is the knowledge ability around the metabolism, around hormones, stuff that we were delivering. So I do think you do have to have some skills, you do have to know your stuff at least to a degree, and this other stuff is also important. I think a lot of coaches come in and they get the certifications. They start at competence, which is great, but then they miss some of these other things we're talking about. But I do think competence, knowledge, expertise is still very important. I don't think it can be overlooked. That would be my final rule.

Speaker 3: 40:02

I'm practicing silence.

Speaker 1: 40:05

Raise practice in silence.

Speaker 3: 40:09

You know I've given you this, for I gave it on your podcast, but I'll give it again here because I think it is important. I agree, and that is that that, if you want to, this is actually the fastest way to Elevate how good of a coach you are. It's almost an instantaneous way to elevate how good of a coach you are, and that is choose better clients. Because, as you know and this kind of goes back to what you were talking about when we were pseudo arguing about the need for transformation and progress and results in people's lives and that is that that not everybody's coachable, right, so you could be the best coach in the world, and if you pick the wrong client, an uncoachable client, they're not gonna progress, they're not gonna see result, they're certainly not gonna see transformation. So, and one of the problems I think a lot of especially new coaches run into, is there in this, this, this famine mindset, where I Saw, I once saw an episode of Dr Phil where this this millionaire woman was Talking about how she was going on these sites where, to date, where they were looking for for sugar mommies, right, and so so he says he says sorry, says so. Basically, what you're telling me is that the only, the only requirement you have is that they own a keyboard, and a lot of coaches go that same route. They they basically will should take anybody who will just say yes to my coaching offer, and so this. So I say you know, if you want to, if you want to become an instantly better coach, choose better clients, choose people who are going to do the work, choose people who are ready for coaching not everybody is ready for coaching and and and and be, be, be confident in saying look, you know, I don't know that coaching is Right for you right now, and and try to help them. Try to say here's what I would suggest that you do right now.

Speaker 3: 42:14

You know, with if you're a business coach, for example, it's very easy to do this. You know it's very easy to come to come across somebody who's not ready for a business coach Not everybody's ready for a business coach. Which you need to do is you need to go set up, you know, figure out what it is that you want to do. You need to go set up your website, and then you know you need to do this. Get your first client and then come to me and won't, we'll take it to the sky, you know from there. The second thing I'll say is is if, if, if, either you don't agree with me and and and you don't believe that you need to choose better clients than, at the very least, you need to at least create better clients and you need to teach people how to be coachable. You need to teach people how to take full advantage of this coaching process, because I believe I honestly believe coaching can be one of the most transformative Forces on earth.

Speaker 3: 43:07

Right now, especially in today's day and age. As AI is moving in, jobs are going to start moving out and as jobs start to move out, people's purposes are going to start to shift and change. You're gonna find a lot of people who found, who found their vocation is their purpose. Those vocations disappear almost overnight and people are going to be looking for a new purpose. They're gonna be looking for meaning, they're gonna be looking for new careers, and I think coaching is positioned to be one of the greatest forces of, you know, of the next decade. When it's done right, you know when it's done right. So you have to, you have to a pick the right people. If you can't, if, if you can't do that, or if you've got somebody who you think might be right but you're not sure. Create a Great client. Teach them how to be coached. You know I.

Speaker 2: 43:55

Wholeheartedly agree. I just shall be real quick, j to say, because Ray and I have gone back and forth in this a lot about like Alright, well, what if I can't coach LeBron James, then what then? I just can't be a great coach. I tease him in that by being hyperbolic. But I love the second part because I do think you have a lot of control to teach people how to be coachable, and I I told Ray this this morning.

Speaker 2: 44:16

When we see all these people come through our old program J and I basically had this started to have this pattern recognition I could tell within the first 10 to 15 minutes of their very first call if they're gonna get results or not. So now we had our coaches going to be like you know what the difference is between someone who gets results and doesn't. It's being coachable. Let me tell you what that means. It means this is a collaboration. You're, you're just as involved as I am. This is your life, this is your show. I'm here to guide you, support you.

Speaker 2: 44:44

But we got to do, we had to do this as a partnership. You have to kind of buy. You have to buy into this and if you're not ready, that's all good, that's okay doing things like that, talking expectations, what do you expect to get us? Program you, what are your? What are the results look like to you in a 12-week program? A lot of times, clients would be like probably lose, like I don't know, 75 pounds, and that gives you the opportunity as a coach to be like All right, let's talk about that a little bit. If you lost 75 pounds, I would have a panic attack in 12 weeks. That's not a good thing, right, we want to make sure it's sustainable, healthy weight loss. But I love the addendum man, I'm on board now. Teach them to be coachable, and I think we have a lot more power as coaches to do that than maybe we think Not everybody.

Speaker 3: 45:21

Even still, I have to say not everybody is coachable, at least not at this time in their life. You know, and and I had a client like this once and and, and I knew on day one that he was not gonna, he and I were not gonna vibe. So sometimes it's they're not coachable by you. They may be coachable by somebody else, but but I just knew you and I tried, I really tried, I mean I really tried to say, right, maybe you're just, maybe you're just wrong, maybe he is coachable and he'll come around, but it didn't do him any good, it didn't do me any good to keep him, keep it going and eventually, you know, we did part ways.

Speaker 3: 46:02

But I think it's especially for new and newer coaches. I feel like you should be really picky. You should be more picky in the beginning than you are when you're a seasoned coach, because when you're a seasoned coach you can do things like that, like it's easier for you to know how to take somebody who's not coachable or has difficulty with the coaching process and get them warm, you know, warm them up into the coaching process. But as a new coach, you know you need to be, I think, a little bit more picky, and that's hard when you're trying to make money as a coach and you have nothing coming in.

Speaker 1: 46:39

What are your thoughts? Yeah, no, I love those. I feel like we covered a lot of good ground and I don't necessarily wanna muddy the water with anything else. You know, I think these are really, really amazing roles and I really kinda wanna shut it down right there.

Speaker 2: 46:58

You want me to do a recap of the rules?

Speaker 1: 46:59

Yeah, so we did.

Speaker 2: 47:00

Just so you can hear him back. Man, See if we stand by these, Otherwise we'll have to scratch this podcast for sure. All right, we have the rule of connection, Ray. I'm calling your first one basically the rule of presence, Like being there and responsive Jay, the law of humanity and empathy, the law of dialogue, the law of questioning the law of competence. I'm calling it the law of know your role, Know what a definition of a coach is. That one the law of individuality and the closer, the law of get good clients.

Speaker 1: 47:35

I love it. All right, so thanks so much for hanging out with us on the show. Real quick, danny Tell everyone where they can find you. Danny has his own podcast. Definitely go and check him out. Where can everyone get more of you, danny, and tell them about your coaching academy those of you who want expert instruction on coaching from Danny. He has a coaching academy that is just excellent, so tell them where they can get more of you.

Speaker 2: 47:59

Yeah, man, I take care of radio and it's at Take Care Radio podcast on Instagram, which we just decided this week, and I'm a delete Instagram so I don't know how useful that is, but Take Care Radio is the pod where I do put out a new episode every single week and you can also join my newsletter at takecarecoachingcom and I also the coaching academy. Thanks for shouting that out, jayde. Brand new coaching program. I essentially call it a psychology of coaching program. If you already have the competence elements, you understand the law of thermodynamics and the three planes of motion. You got your A certification. That's awesome. But there's a whole another skill set to actually build relationships with clients, to communicate in effective ways, to build confidence and conviction as a coach, and that's the kind of thing we talk about in the coaching academy, which you can check out at takecarecoachingcom as well.

Speaker 1: 48:50

Nice Ray, how do people get you?

Speaker 3: 48:53

I would just go to the Find the Podcast, a five minute coaching school, and it's really just a series of very, very short, one to five minute episodes where we just kind of go through and upgrade our coaching skills one little bit at a time.

Speaker 1: 49:08

All right, everybody. I hope you enjoyed this with two of my best friends on the planet. Thanks so much for hanging out and we'll see you at the next show.